bach trombone case

Vincent Bach . Strings are a standard 44322 configuration (4 first violin, 4 second violin, 3 viola, 2 cello, 2 bass). The business grew rapidly and in 1924, the first Bach trumpets were produced. Storage compartment with snap lid for small accessories. Dimensions (inches): 37 long x 10 wide x 12 tall (6 x 9 elsewhere). It is highly typical of band sets to have multiple copies of parts, especially flute, clarinet, sax, trumpet, trombone & percussion. And finally, here is one more way to visualize the above code sequence: Two padded leather covered handles - one on top and one at the end. Brand. Trombone … This site has grown through the contributions of fellow Bach loyalists, and is one of the most complete references of Bach related instruments. There is no separate number for Bass Trombone, but it can generally be assumed that if there are multiple Trombone parts, the lowest part can/should be performed on Bass Trombone. Trombone Bore. The Beethoven example is typical of much Classical and early Romantic fare. Most orders are eligible for free shipping! Bach Trombone w/ Case - USA. 8) Crossrock CRA860TBBL trombone case Crossrock CRA860TBBL is a heavy duty trombone case that comes along with a scratch resistant surface. Note: This system lists Horn before Trumpet. The first number stands for Flute, the second for Oboe, the third for Clarinet, the fourth for Bassoon, and the fifth (separated from the woodwinds by a dash) is for Horn. The Bach 1845 Bass Trombone Case is the same case standard on all Bach 50 Series bass trombones with traditional rotors and the 50 Thayer models. Every guitar or bass you A Gear Adviser is ready to take your questions, Looking for something else? the latest deals. 83. The following is considered to be Standard Instrumentation: Following some titles in our Orchestra & Band catalogs, you will see a numeric code enclosed in square brackets, as in these examples: The bracketed numbers tell you the precise instrumentation of the ensemble. View Brands. Two mouthpiece cups fit standard or heavytop mouthpieces. Bach Trombone & Case. There is no low brass. Comes with genuine Vincent Bach mouthpiece and deluxe wood shell case. Current Page: Trombone Cases & Gig Bags; Bach Trombone Cases & Gig Bags. Winter CE 176 JW Eastman Series Fiberglass Trombone Case and the SKB SKB-462 Pro Universal Trombone Case come in handy. Any additional instruments (Tympani in this example) are indicated by a "w/" (meaning "with") or by using a plus sign. Only 1 left in stock - order soon. 00. Bach later added trombones … Vintage Olds Ambassador Fullerton California Trombone # 261895 with Bundy Case. Also, it should be noted that Euphonium can be doubled by either Trombone or Tuba. The Bach 1845 Bass Trombone Case is the same case standard on all Bach 50 Series bass trombones with traditional rotors and the 50 Thayer models. Titles listed in our catalog without bracketed numbers are assumed to use "Standard Instrumentation." The first number stands for Trumpet, the second for Horn, the third for Trombone, the fourth (separated from the first three by a dot) for Euphonium and the fifth for Tuba. Find answers at our, Last Day for 2-Day Air Shipping for Christmas Delivery: 12/22 at 12pm EST :: Call, Contact our experts for a recommendation of great alternatives. Categories. 14 matches. An accomplished musician as well as engineer, the master craftsman Vincent Bach and his company have built a legacy of brass intruments of unequaled quality that remain a top choice for players of all levels worldwide.Made in the USA using only the highest quality materials, the Bach TB301 trombone … Multiples, if any, are not shown in this system. Trombone Cases. Other Required and Solo parts follow the strings: Principal auxilary instruments (piccolo, english horn, bass clarinet, contrabassoon, wagner tuba, cornet & euphonium) are linked to their respective instruments with either a "d" if the same player doubles the auxiliary instrument, or a "+" if an extra player is required. King Legend Tenor Trombone Case $325.00 $439.00 Sale. Compare prices & save money on Musical Instrument Cases / Racks. Titles with no bracketed numbers are assumed to use "Standard Instrumentation." Dimensions (metric): 94 long x 25.4 wide x 30.5 tall (15.5 x 23 cm elsewhere). Valve Trombone Vincent Bach combined his unique talents as both a musician and an engineer to create brass instruments of unequaled total quality - instruments which today remain the sound choice … Accommodating trombones with up to a 10.62" bell, this case is outfitted with a … It has specifically been designed to … 4.6 out of 5 stars 3. These are linked to their respective principal instruments with either a "d" if the same player doubles the instrument, or a "+" if an extra player is required. Ships Fast! See All Bach Trombone Cases … Orders placed before 5 p.m. Filter results: Sort by. More, Popular Thus a double reed quartet of 2 oboes, english horn and bassoon will look like this: Note the "2+1" portion means "2 oboes plus english horn". FREE Shipping. usually ship the same business day. Saxophones, when included in orchestral music (they rarely are) will be shown in the "other instrument" location after strings and before the soloist, if any. ($69.95 - $389.00) Find great deals on the latest styles of Bach trombone case. However for band music, they are commonly present and therefore will be indicated after bassoon as something similar to "SAATB" where S=soprano, A=alto, T=tenor and B=baritone. In the third example, we have a rather extreme use of the system. $9.99 0 bids + shipping . For orchestral music, saxes are at the end (see Saxophones below. Shop, Hollow & Semi-Hollow We're sorry-this item is unavailable. Vintage Silvertone Slide Trombone. Solidly built, this case … Categories, More Ways to The set of numbers after the dash represent the Brass. Bach Trombone with VH1 Cargo Case Professional musicians worldwide recognize the Bach name for outstanding quality. Sometimes strings are simply listed as "str," which means 44322 strings. Guides, Artist Eastar Bb Tenor Slide Trombone Brass with Hard Case Mouthpiece Cleaning Kit & Care Kit Standard Student Beginner Trombone ETB-330 4.4 out of 5 stars 200 # 1 Best Seller in Trombones. Black $239.83 $ 239. There is tympani. Bach 5093 Trombone Case | Musician's Friend Get the guaranteed best price on Trombone Cases & Gig Bags like the Bach 5093 Trombone Case at Musician's Friend. Musicians Friend, Gear Buying Titles with no bracketed numbers are assumed to use "Standard Instrumentation." $121.00 0 bids + $25.00 shipping . Call us at, About Stradivarius Bach Tenor Bass Trombone 42 160 Usa Wind Instruments W/ Hard Case. Our Gear Advisers are available to guide you through your entire shopping experience. Or, if you need something a bit bigger, go with the J. Slide stores in the lid behind a protective panel. Subscriptions, CA With a large accessory compartment and comes complete with the Michael Rath logo. Note also that the separate euphonium part is attached to trombone with a plus sign. $1974.00. Prototype Trombone: 1931: ... BachLoyalist.com is the ultimate reference to everything related to Vincent Bach & Bach Stradivarius brass instruments. Winter CE 178 JW-Eastman Series Fiberglass Bass Trombone Case. The second example is common for a concert band or wind ensemble piece. Gard Elite Bass Trombone G-Series Gig Bag $299.00 Sold Out. Pictured is my new personal bass trombone case in green and black leather with an optional end handle, and the sleek dark brown and British tan leather. Narrow By. Transparancy Act. The slide is in great shape and slides easily. The Bach 744 Vinyl Trombone Case Cover is designed to fit the older Bach 1864 Series Trombone Cases that do not have the Cordura fabric exterior. WOW Protec Case Black ProPac Tenor Trombone 💎Contoured PB 306CT DISPLAY. The first number stands for Violin, the second for Viola, the third for Cello, and the fourth for Double Bass. Call or Chat for expert advice and to hear Only 1 left. Viewing 1-1 of 1 by Best Seller. Orders placed before 5 p.m. ET usually ship the same business day. The hard trombone case is a traditional wooden hard case with a three latch close design with two locks and key. Example 2 - Jones: (concert band/wind ensemble example). $425: Large bass trombone 2-piece travel case : This case holds all double valve bass trombones. Leather TBN BBG-L 7.5 lbs $269. Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for Genuine Bach Trombone Case for 36B … Call or Chat for expert advice and to hear the latest deals. Bach Large Shank Trombone … $149.99. Thus, the Copland Fanfare shown above is for 3 Trumpets, 4 Horns, 3 Trombones, no Euphonium, 1 Tuba and Tympani. Get it as soon as Tue, Nov 3. Musicians frequently referred to a Bach trumpet as a real ‘Stradivarius’, thus inspiring the name Bach Stradivarius. Bach Model 42B Stradivarius Tenor Trombone w/ F-attachment, Stand, Case, + more 5 out of 5 stars (2) 2 product ratings - Bach Model 42B Stradivarius Tenor Trombone w/ F-attachment, Stand, Case, + … protection from manufacturer defects. Sometimes there are instruments in the ensemble other than those shown above. ... Bach Stradivarius Trumpets and Trombones … Bach Tb200b F Attachment Trombone W/case. Condition is "Used". All 42 series Bach Stradivarius tenor trombones feature .547″ large bore, 8-1/2″ one-piece yellow brass bell, chrome-plated nickel silver seamless inner slide, brass outer slide, nickel silver handgrip, tubular nickel silver body braces, genuine Vincent Bach mouthpiece, deluxe wood shell case… £410.33. Thus, this string quartet is for 2 Violas and 2 Cellos, rather than the usual 2110. Metal bumpers on four sides help protect body and trim. The first set of numbers (before the dash) represent the Woodwinds. The same American craftsmen that build the professional Bach Stradi... Click To … Every guitar or bass you purchase from Musician's Friend (electric or acoustic, New or Open Box) includes two years of protection from manufacturer defects. Free Standard Ground shipping (48 contiguous states, some overweight and Used/Vintage items excluded). Buy Bach Trombone Case on eBay now! Letters that are duplicated (as in A in this example) indicate multiple parts. Whenever this occurs, we will separate the first four digits with commas for clarity. Enjoy the lowest prices and best selection of Bach Trombone Cases & Gig Bags at Guitar Center. Stradivarius Bach . 4.2 out of 5 stars 47. Questions or Comments about this site? Strings are represented with a series of five digits representing the quantity of each part (first violin, second violin, viola, cello, bass). Bach; Yamaha; Schilke; Jo-Ral; Conn; Holton; Denis Wick; Miraphone; ... Open quick view dialog for Bach Large Shank Trombone Mouthpiece. This woodwind quartet is for 1 Flute, no Oboe, 1 Clarinet, 1 Bassoon, 1 Horn and Piano. Vincent Bach Stradivarius Model 36 Key Bb Trombone Serial No. … Tubular nickel silver body braces. ... Bach 819H Stradivarius Trombone Gig Bag. This is where rigid cases like the J. Marcus Bonna Bass Trombone Case From $550.00 Sale. Following many of the titles in our Wind Ensemble catalog, you will see a set of numbers enclosed in square brackets, as in this example: The bracketed numbers tell you the precise instrumentation of the ensemble. Have an account? Every Bach trombone is hand crafted, focusing on precision manufacturing and detail. Please contact us at orders@hickeys.com, All Contents © 1994-2020 Hickey's Music Center | Created in harmony with The Cyrus Company. Interviews & Nice Vintage Martin Indiana Elkhart USA Trombone w/ Case … Filters Sort. Get the lowest price on our huge selection of Trombone Cases & Gig Bags at Woodwind & Brasswind - Your band and orchestra authority. Marcus Bonna Bass Trombone Case… Trombone Mutes; Brass Cases; Instrument Stands; Care & Cleaning; Replacement Parts; Tools; Breathing Aids; Top Brands. Protec Trombone Case … The system used above is standard in the orchestra music field. It is an orchestral work for piccolo, 2 flutes (1 of whom doubles on piccolo), 1 oboe, 2 clarinets plus an additional bass clarinet, 1 bassoon, 2 horns, 2 trumpets (plus an optional 2 cornets), 3 trombones, no tuba, percussion, tympani, 6 first violins, 6 second violins, 4 violas, 3 cellos, 2 double basses, Eb clarinet (as an additional chair, not doubled), 5 saxes (soprano, 2 alto, tenor & baritone) & a trombone soloist. Although they're weighty and a little more cumbersome than a gig bag, these hard cases offer maximum resilience that stands up to virtually any punishment, keeping your trombone … Protec … This ficticious work is for 2 flutes (plus piccolo), 1 oboe, 3 clarinets plus alto and bass clarinets, 2 bassoons, 5 saxes (soprano, 2 altos, tenor & bari), 2 trumpets (plus 2 cornets), 3 trombones, euphonium, tuba, tympani, percussion and double bass. $10.50 2 bids + shipping . purchase from Musician's Friend (electric or acoustic, New or Open Box) includes two years of to guide you through your entire shopping experience. Product description Bach Trombone with case and Bach 12C mouthpiece. Example 3 - MacKenzie: (a fictional work, by the way). The following is considered to be Standard Instrumentation: Following many of the titles in our String Ensemble catalog, you will see a set of four numbers enclosed in square brackets, as in this example: These numbers tell you how many of each instrument are in the ensemble. Contact our experts for a recommendation of great alternatives. Flute (doubles or with additional Piccolo), Oboe (doubles or with additional English Horn), Clarinet (doubles or with additional Bass Clarinet), Bassoon (doubles or with additional Contrabassoon), Saxophones (band music only, showing SATB voicing), Horn (doubles or with additional Wagner Tuba), Trumpet (doubles or with additional Cornet), Trombone (doubles or with additional Euphonium), Tuba (doubles or with additional Euphonium), Strings (1st & 2nd Violin, Viola, Cello, Bass). £101.21 postage. The numbers represent only distinct parts, not the number of copies of a part. The C1867A is a shaped woodshell case, with a slimmer design that is more compact than traditional rectangular "coffin" cases. Modeled on the design of the early 1920's Bach cases, this case features the familiar brown leather trimmed exterior with brass latches and hinges. Bach Tb200b . Percussion is abbreviated following the brass. Our Gear Advisers are available Call us at 800-449-9128. Please contact webmaster@hickeys.com, Questions about an order? In this case, the winds are all doubled (2 flutes, 2 oboes, 2 clarinets and 2 bassoons), and there are two each horns and trumpets. The following is considered to be Standard Instrumentation: Following many of the titles in our Brass Ensemble catalog, you will see a set of five numbers enclosed in square brackets, as in this example: The bracketed numbers tell you how many of each instrument are in the ensemble. Search for stores. Traditional wrap F attachment offers outstanding clarity and projection with just the right amount of resistance. ET Modeled on the design of the early 1920's Bach cases, this case features … The C1867A is a shaped woodshell case, with a slimmer design that is more compact than traditional rectangular "coffin" cases. This is standard orchestral nomenclature. Sign in to see your saved items. Fits all valve and wrap configurations, including straight, rotary, Thayer, Hagmann, Infinity, etc. Heavy duty wood shell construction with scuff-resistant brown vinyl covering and brass plated hardware. Our soft cases … Pick Up at Store. 5 out of 5 stars (2) 2 product ratings - WOW Protec Case Black ProPac Tenor Trombone … Shipped with USPS Priority Mail. Instruments shown in parenthesis are optional and may be omitted. a Card Payment, Manage $2530.00. Get a low price and free shipping … This vinyl cover fits the 1864, 1864K and 1864CV cases. Genuine Bach Trombone Case for 36B & 42B NEW! Surface wear and use wear, with cosmetic small dings in the bell and curve, but nothing … Body, Make Note the inclusion of the saxes after bassoon for this band work. 25462 With Case. Selmer Prelude TB711 Bb Lacquered Student Tenor Trombone … Today, the Bach Stradivarius trombones remain the sound choice for the most discerning musicians worldwide. 37x11x11" Cordura TBN BBG-C 6 lbs. $175.00 $ 175. Unless otherwise noted, we will use this system for both orchestra and band works (in most band scores, Trumpet precedes Horn, and sometimes Oboe & Bassoon follow Clarinet). Typically, orchestra scores have the tuba linked to euphonium, but it does happen where Trombone is the principal instead. Protec Tenor Trombone Contoured PRO PAC Case - Black, Model PB306CT. Heavy duty wood shell construction with scuff-resistant brown vinyl covering and brass plated hardware. Any additional instruments (Piano in this example) are indicated by "w/" (meaning "with") or by using a plus sign. At orders @ hickeys.com, all Contents © 1994-2020 Hickey 's music Center | Created harmony! Should be noted that euphonium can be doubled by either Trombone or Tuba and Bach mouthpiece. With commas for clarity x 10 wide x 12 tall ( 6 x 9 elsewhere ) and 2 Cellos rather... Olds Ambassador Fullerton California Trombone # 261895 with Bundy Case that the separate euphonium part attached! Is ready to take your questions, Looking for something else early Romantic fare of. ): 37 long x 25.4 wide x 12 tall ( 6 x elsewhere! Or Tuba ( see Saxophones below Case holds all double valve Bass trombones Tue Nov... | Created in harmony with the Cyrus Company © 1994-2020 Hickey 's music Center | Created harmony... Just the right amount of resistance on eBay now attached to Trombone with a plus sign Trombone with Case Bach! Elite Bass Trombone Case is a traditional wooden hard Case comes with genuine Vincent Bach Stradivarius instruments... 12C mouthpiece slides easily use of the most complete references of Bach Trombone Case a! Hagmann, Infinity, etc above is Standard in the ensemble other than those shown above the represent. Elite Bass Trombone 42 160 Usa Wind instruments W/ hard Case with a plus sign and wrap,... The Cyrus Company right amount of resistance the right amount of resistance orchestra scores have the linked! Metric ): 94 long x 10 wide x 30.5 tall ( 6 x 9 elsewhere ) mouthpiece and wood!: Large Bass Trombone G-Series Gig Bag $ 299.00 Sold Out genuine Vincent Bach mouthpiece and deluxe wood shell with... Take your questions, Looking for something else the number of copies of a part Find. The orchestra music field, it should be noted that euphonium can be doubled by Trombone! Bumpers on four sides help protect body and trim to use `` Standard Instrumentation. Looking something! Entire shopping experience ensemble example ) we will separate the first set numbers. With genuine Vincent Bach & Bach Stradivarius trombones remain the sound choice for the most discerning musicians worldwide Viola 2! Above is Standard in the lid behind a protective panel titles listed in our catalog without bracketed are... Of resistance ( metric ): 94 long x 25.4 wide x 12 (! Listed in our catalog without bracketed numbers are assumed to use `` Standard Instrumentation. # 261895 with Bundy.. Wooden hard Case the brass to Vincent Bach mouthpiece and deluxe wood shell construction with scuff-resistant brown vinyl and... End ( see Saxophones below Trombone 42 160 Usa Wind instruments W/ hard Case with Large! Focusing on precision manufacturing and detail Tuba linked to euphonium, but it happen... Great deals on the design of the early 1920 's Bach cases, Case! Instruments W/ hard Case with a plus sign Adviser is ready to your... Used/Vintage items excluded ) this vinyl cover fits the 1864, 1864K 1864CV. Ensemble example ) indicate multiple parts © 1994-2020 Hickey 's music Center | Created in harmony the... Projection with just the right amount of resistance are available to guide through... '' which means 44322 strings offers outstanding clarity and projection with just the right amount of resistance Cleaning. Lid behind a protective panel slide stores in the lid behind a protective panel $! ( a fictional work, by the way ) Standard in the orchestra field! Focusing on precision manufacturing and detail the separate euphonium part is attached to with. 30.5 tall ( 6 x 9 elsewhere ) design of the most discerning musicians worldwide dash ) represent Woodwinds! Outstanding clarity and projection with just the right amount of resistance instruments W/ hard.! Assumed to use `` Standard Instrumentation. all Contents © 1994-2020 Hickey 's music Center | Created in harmony the. First four digits with commas for clarity Bonna Bass Trombone Case, saxes are the. Metric ): 94 long x 25.4 wide x 30.5 tall ( x. Trombone cases your entire shopping experience most complete references of Bach Trombone Case a! & Cleaning ; Replacement parts ; Tools ; Breathing Aids ; Top Brands and! Ground shipping ( 48 contiguous states, some overweight and Used/Vintage items excluded ) stores the! 'S music Center | Created in harmony with the Michael Rath logo recommendation of great.! Expert advice and to hear the latest styles of bach trombone case Trombone Case $ $. Can be doubled by either Trombone or Tuba before the dash represent the Woodwinds vinyl... Large accessory compartment and comes complete with the Michael Rath logo & Bach bach trombone case! As in a in this system for the most complete references of Trombone! Contact our experts for a recommendation of great alternatives, it should be noted that can... Are simply listed as `` str, '' which means 44322 strings & Bach Stradivarius trombones remain sound... 69.95 - $ 389.00 ) Find great deals on the latest deals ( $ 69.95 - 389.00! Use of the saxes after Bassoon for this band work 4 first,. 178 JW-Eastman Series Fiberglass Bass Trombone G-Series Gig Bag $ 299.00 Sold Out, and is one of the complete! Example 3 - MacKenzie: ( a fictional work, by the way ) the professional Bach Stradi... to. The separate euphonium part is attached to Trombone with a plus sign latest styles of Bach Trombone Case the Bach... Fictional work, by the way ) brass instruments expert advice and to hear the latest.! Ce 176 JW Eastman Series Fiberglass Trombone Case is a traditional wooden hard Case with Large! Contents © 1994-2020 Hickey 's music Center | Created in harmony with the Cyrus Company Adviser! Of bach trombone case Bach loyalists, and the fourth for double Bass the same American craftsmen build. Case From $ 550.00 Sale call or Chat for expert advice and to hear the latest deals &! To Vincent Bach & Bach Stradivarius brass instruments, but it does where. The SKB SKB-462 Pro Universal Trombone Case Black ProPac Tenor Trombone Case on eBay now euphonium... ; Replacement parts ; Tools ; Breathing Aids ; Top Brands mouthpiece and wood. Of a part related instruments Tue, Nov 3 the number of copies of a part,,! Bach later added trombones … Product description Bach Trombone is the principal instead sometimes are! ( $ 69.95 - $ 389.00 ) Find great deals on the design of the 1920... Scuff-Resistant brown vinyl covering and brass plated hardware a fictional work, by the way ) & save on. The sound choice for the most discerning musicians worldwide a Large accessory and! Trombone Mutes ; brass cases ; Instrument Stands ; Care & Cleaning ; Replacement parts ; Tools Breathing... As Tue, Nov 3 four sides help protect body and trim Cello! ; Top Brands related to Vincent Bach Stradivarius Model 36 Key Bb Trombone Serial no Bass ) $ $... Description Bach Trombone is the principal instead the 1864, 1864K and 1864CV cases specifically been to. Example, we will separate the first four digits with commas for clarity design the... Hand crafted, focusing on precision manufacturing and detail the ensemble other than those shown above for clarity the. A traditional wooden hard Case with a Large accessory compartment and comes with! 178 JW-Eastman Series Fiberglass Trombone Case is a traditional wooden hard Case with a Large accessory and. Is in great shape and slides easily it has specifically been designed to … Trombone Mutes ; brass ;. Where Trombone is the ultimate reference to everything related to Vincent Bach & Bach Stradivarius trombones remain the choice! To guide you through your entire shopping experience Protec Case Black ProPac Tenor Trombone Case and the SKB SKB-462 Universal. Shell Case Thayer, Hagmann, Infinity, etc, by the way.... No Oboe, 1 Bassoon, 1 Horn and Piano styles of Bach Trombone Case for 36B & NEW. Euphonium, but it does happen where Trombone is hand crafted, focusing precision. Chat for expert advice and to hear bach trombone case latest deals Elite Bass 2-piece. A three latch close design with two locks and Key Serial no 23 cm elsewhere ) rather the. End ( see Saxophones below Mutes ; brass cases ; Instrument Stands ; Care & Cleaning ; parts. As soon as Tue, Nov 3 ensemble other than those shown above for orchestral,. The end ( see Saxophones below From $ 550.00 Sale amount of resistance ( 15.5 23. Flute, no Oboe, 1 Horn and Piano and 1864CV cases 37 long x 25.4 wide x 12 (. Titles listed in our catalog without bracketed numbers are assumed to use `` Standard Instrumentation ''! Bach Tenor Bass Trombone Case… Every Bach Trombone Case come in handy ProPac Tenor Trombone 💎Contoured 306CT! Tenor Trombone Case traditional wrap F attachment offers outstanding clarity and projection with the. Great deals on the latest deals the Cyrus Company x 23 cm elsewhere ) Legend Tenor Trombone Case $ $... Deluxe wood shell Case the Cyrus Company hand crafted, focusing on bach trombone case manufacturing and.! Instruments in the third for Cello, and is one of the early 1920 's Bach cases, this holds... Trombone 💎Contoured PB 306CT DISPLAY this occurs, we will separate the first set of numbers before! 1864Cv cases Trombone Case… Every Bach Trombone is the principal instead G-Series Gig Bag $ 299.00 Sold.! & save money on Musical Instrument cases / Racks it has specifically designed. Attachment offers outstanding clarity and projection with just the right amount of resistance is Standard the... Case on eBay now, Hagmann, Infinity, etc the Beethoven example is common a...

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